Otome Youkai Zakuro 01-07
- November 17th, 2010
- Posted in Otome Youkai Zakuro
- By commander`A
- Write comment
So, lets see here. Why are we doing a joint when we could have done it alone? Well, Zakuro and Yosuga airs back to back, with a difference of an hour or two at max if I’m not mistaken. And speedsubbing Yosuga is tiring enough to care about this for another two days. I’m usually out for like, 20 hours or so after Yosuga and this used to get stalled for nothing. So we’ve decided to have someone else help us out with it. And Daiz was bro enough to offer us his help on this.
So, why are we doing a joint with Underwater and what will we do on this? It depends, but it won’t make much of a difference since we were using CR subs for this ourselves. And just to tell you, Daiz is 9001x BETTER encoder than me, so the video quality is definitely better than my encodes. The only thing that’d be changed is the styling WHICH I DONT LIKE EITHER BUT SHOUGANAI NA. Hopefully, we’ll have this out within a few hours from now on now that we don’t have any backlogs. (derp, I still have to finish Sora no Otoshimono ;_________;)
As expected, the collaboration with Underwater made your version rather underwhelming. Wondering whether to drop this series now that there’s no decent subber or just go with that Baaka fellow’s releases…
*Facepalm*
And how exactly did it become “rather underwhelming”? The only major thing that was changed was the styling and the dialogue and typesetting is 99% identical. The only another big difference will be that releases will be faster from now on, which should only be a plus.
To begin with, you removed the karaoke for no discernable purpose (other than not liking it, perhaps).
The delocalizing of the CR script that Ryuumaru did is also not present in the collaboration, which is a sizable minus to me.
This is now basically the same as any other CR rip, only with song translation and romaji transcription.
The only “delocalizing” that commander`A did was edit in honorifics. That’s literally the only thing that was changed. If you have these things called ears in your head and understand honorifics, you should be able to pick them up from the audio. Why should something Japanese you can understand and pick up without subtitles be written out untranslated in the subtitles as well?
As for whining about lack of karaoke timing… actually, maybe it’s better if I don’t say anything. I’ll just link to this.
http://www.the-triad.org/Article264.html
Well, IMO, sometimes peoples wanna read something what they hear. That’s why some peoples still need honorifics.
It’s up to you, though whether you don’t want to use it or not, since I’m not in the position to comment a lot to you, since I, myself even not interested enough to edit it, though actually it’s not that hard just adding some honorifics.
I just hope that it won’t be stalled, and keep releasing it every week. No need to rush, just do your job, well, as long as it’s still in the same week.
Honestly I liked the old styling better myself, but IMO complaining is just a waste of time, since Daiz is involved with the project now.
He is a terrific encoder, but when he thinks that something is useless (such as honorifics, karaoke and fancy stuff in general) you cannot change his mind. Period.
After all, beggars can’t be choosers.
I agree with Daiz logic above. But why not take it one step further? I know a little Japanese (by extension many others do too), so why not take out all those little one-word lines you can already understand and leave only longer lines with subtitles? Maybe I should make my own sub to go along with yours, for those who want it that way.
-Flamethrower
Ah that’s a shame, I much preferred the Ryuumaru releases for Zakuro. Well, the lack of karaoke makes me happy and the encodes are better so it’s not all bad.
WHAT NO KARAOKE?!! that’s an atrocity.
I demand you fix it, your encode however warrants a watch
According to the post at Underwater, Ryuumaru is only really doing the OP/ED and everything else is Underwater’s job, besides translation since it’s a CR rip and all.
There’s still romaji and translated lyrics for the OP and all EDs, aka everything you need if you really want to sing along. The only thing not there anymore is k-timing.
Thanks for your reply in [Underwater] dear Daiz. I will take that into account, but will still be preferring unlocalized subs for this anime. I am getting [Horriblesubs]/[Baaka] from episode 8 onwards (since your one is practically the same, unless you are faster) and will archive [Mango] subs since they are using their own subs, and are not just ripping CR. They have very good translation and much to my liking, are not doing localized subs. It’s a shame that it had to come to this.
Anyways, I am keeping the [Ryuumaru] only releases for episodes 1-5, since they were great, loved the styling, k-timing and karaoke style was added features, and of course loved those on-screen typesettings were wonderful. Thanks you Commander`A. Please don’t overwork. I appreciate the wonderful effort you’ve put in your releases. and I am still following Hyakka from [Ryuumaru]. :)
There was absolutely nothing “unlocalized” about the Ryuumaru scripts before this joint save for the added honorifics, and you should be able to pick up those from the audio. Beyond that, the releases still have romaji and translated lyrics for the OP & EDs and onscreen typesetting.
And as for Mango, from what I looked at ji-hi, they seem to have horrible editing, use unnecessarily complex words (that they then have on-screen notes for, seriously, why the fuck would you use words like that to begin with if you have to explain them), flat-out bad translation mistakes, lazier typesetting and rather bloated filesizes. On top of that, they’re notably slower. But hey, if you still feel like going with them, be my guest.
As for the release speed, I naturally can never compete with HorribleSubs since they rip everything from CR directly with no chances whatsoever while I make my own encode, go through the subs, edit where appropriate, add the OP/ED lyrics, do proper on-screen typesetting and QC it before releasing. But I should probably be faster than Baaka since I’m quite damn efficient at what I do.
[Mango]:Dialogue: 0,0:00:34.65,0:00:36.60,Default,Hanadate,0000,0000,0000,,Ah, Second Lieutenant Agemaki,
CR, FYI, mistakenly left it as ‘Lieutenant’. I wonder who left it out as ‘Lieutenant’ too, as a contrast to someone’s ‘horrible editing’. I would rather not check your release.
I would much appreciate if people recognize effort putting into fansubbing and not belittling one another with the certain remarks. I am really disappointed the way some of us have been responding.
I will be your guest and will go for [Mango] for certain now. Thanks again for your hard work. I am sure there are many out there who will appreciate the effort everyone puts in their work, when of course, this is a free service we are getting. I appreciate your work for what you are doing, but appreciating something doesn’t mean you have to take that as absolute and don’t let people know how you think, at least thats why the comments sections are kept open. I would rather see them off if they are too much to deal with. My sincere apologies.
Seriously, Ryuumaru. At least edit in honorifics back. Don’t let Daiz walk all over you with his nonsense.
Wouldn’t want a similar gg-UTW drama incident, right? Underwater would be gg in this case.
“You don’t need honorifics cause you should be able to hear them from the audio”? Why type out names at all then? We can clearly hear that they’re being spoken and names don’t require translations so why are they included? Honorifics are NOT regular words and they shouldn’t be treated as such, they shouldn’t be translated (unless they’re used AS a word rather than to address someone*) and they should never be completely omitted. Unless you prefer incomplete translations of course, translations that fail to convey the cultural differences. (Over-localization/name-butchery)
*A to C about B: “She is my [senpai]“. –> Not used as a name. Should definitely be translated.
A to B: “Kaname-[senpai], stop hogging the remote”. –> Used as a name/part of the name. Should not, under any circumstances, be touched.
Note that I’m NOT saying that “localization is bad, period”. I’m all for the use of proper English and 1:1 translations or weeabooism (like leaving words that do have proper translations untranslated) pisses me off just as much as the name-butchery does.
Oh, inb4 someone spouts some bs about “honorifics are not used in proper English”… stop treating honorifics as if they were words already, they are part of the names and depend on the relationship between the one being addressed and the one speaking. You don’t mess with names, ever. By using incorrect name order you’re changing the aural identifier unique to this one character/person. By removing the honorifics you are actively removing a part of his or her name and you are also closing the door on cultural differences (an act of pure ignorance). If you do all this, why not start translating the actual names as well? Go for the hat-trick and turn Nagato Yuki-san into “Snow Nagato”.
>Honorifics are NOT regular words and they shouldn’t be treated as such
Stopped reading there.
Actually I skimmed over the rest too, and for the record CR isn’t switching name order around or just totally dropping honorifics, rather they’re conveying the meanings carried by honorifics via the English dialogue.
And they’re doing a damned good job at it. I, being a long-time anime watcher, naturally understand honorifics and can pick them up without failure from the audio, and I have to say that I have been throughoutly impressed about how well CR has handled them in their translation. Claiming that any kind of meaning would have been lost that couldn’t be picked up from the translated English dialogue and the way the characters act would be nothing short of ignorant.
Honestly, next time try watching the subs before going on a pointless overexaggerating and at times just completely false rant about them.
“being a long-time anime watcher”
Then why aren’t you enthusiastic about honorifics? Or are you lying? I also have been watching anime for a long time, and because I’ve for that long, I naturally come to like and want honorifics in my translation. This is simply more than just wanting to have them because the translation would be better/more enjoyable, but ALSO a subculture practice that really should be kept and continued for other’s sake. Others such as people who are still new to anime or those who still haven’t quite have a solid grasp/image of behind honorifics yet, and how they are used among characters (especially for character archetypes).
I started out watching from official to fansub way back then, I can honestly say that I prefer fansub, especially ones that didn’t localize. My experience and how I watched anime change quite a lot after becoming familiar with honorifics and of other common/related terms and phrases founded within the anime subculture. So, if it were up to me, I’d want other people to be able to become cultured/familiarized, like how I was. And after all these years, I’m still learning something new from watching anime (from reading manga too), of honorifics or of things that’s commonly founded in anime, from verbal/ending speeches to “onee-sama”, which that doubles as a pronoun and an archetype.
If people keep getting exposed to CR’s translation or just localized translation in general, then a whole new generation of anime watchers are going to be clueless and ignorant about significant terms/phrases of the anime subculture, on top of being exposed to inferior translation (from my perspective). Doing so would be like robbing people the chance to learn about the anime subculture. It’d be robbing them off more topics to talk about too by limiting their knowledge if they’re watching localized subs.
Localized subs also becomes a trust issue, especially if it’s anything like how CR translates. It’s not just about honorifics, but over general and even common Japanese concept/terms that might unnecessarily get translated. Aside from possible sounding very awkward and contrived, it’d also be like shaving off any cultural/foreign aspect of a show by making it more “English” friendly, which can mean very liberal takes and even possibly distorting characterization.
Like it or not, some Japanese terms can’t be conveyed through English due to lacking an equivalence or simply because the concept is too different from a culture standpoint. Anime are animation for the Japanese audience, and no one else in mind. They’ll always be concepts from their own culture being used and depicted in them. Setting, characters, personalities, stereotypes, comedy, genre, themes, etc all will somehow be using Japanese concepts. So, one simply can’t just go about and distort that because one believes there shouldn’t be any Japanese words in an English translation. A lot of “professional” publishers understands and sees it that way, so I don’t see why you don’t. CR, of course, is a lost cause.
If you want another input, some people do watch anime because they are animation from Japan, that is, because of the unique style and culture surrounding anime. Things like honorifics would included in the latter here because anime characters being anime characters re only founded in anime. If one of the reasons someone watched anime simply for usual anime character’s depiction, speech, personality/attitude, appearance, etc, then that’s all the more reason to have the translation reflect all of that in a way that an anime character would be and talked like. This, of course, includes honorifics, otaku lingo, and so on.
No TL;DR version for you.
“Then why aren’t you enthusiastic about honorifics?”
I’ll just leave these here:
http://twitpic.com/2v9wm3
http://twitpic.com/2va1ot
For the record, I have actually studied Japanese to a certain degree. Also, you should ask actual translators how they feel about honorifics in subtitles; most of them will tell you that they couldn’t care less.
I don’t mind seeing honorifics in my subtitles, but over the years of seeing thousands of literal translations with honorifics, I’ve come to like translations with a level of English where the dialogue actually flows well and feels like proper English. Not including honorifics in the subtitles contributes to this flow, and I always pick them up from the audio as well. I’ve seen cases where people have failed with honorifics too, but I simply don’t care about it since I don’t need subtitles for the honorifics.
Cool personal story, man.
Aside from being a matter of perception, those hardly address what I’m saying and getting at. And you might not “need” then, but that doesn’t mean other people are the same as you. If you don’t hate them and don’t mind their presence, then quit being so god damn aversive towards them. Or actually, stop being so damn aversive towards the idea of having Japanese words/phrases in an English translation simply because they aren’t in the English dictionary.
Any such argument like that is piss poor and hilarious because that doesn’t matter when it comes to fansub and for this kind of medium honorifics and many other Japanese/otaku terms/phrases are something unique or exclusive, therefore they should be preserved…to a certain extend), that is. Carrying out needless and unnecessarily translation is bad, and usually ends up with a contrived or awkward sounding translation. Simply throwing them out in exchange for an English concept/joke/phrasing/etc is a cop-out because that’d be dumbing down and distorting the translation in order to cater to the general masses. Note that this isn’t just about honorifics but the problem with localizing in all aspects, which includes honorifics.
Would you rather have a translation that is catered towards the general mass (i.e. people new to anime and the culture surrounding it by making it Americanized) or to anime watchers in general that ranges from those enthusiastic about the anime subculture (being willing to learn or just happy over them) to those who have at least a minimum grasp over honorifics and some otaku tier (enough to enjoy and understand meaning behind such terms to better enjoy what they are watching)? The quality of both translation are equally good, but the difference between the two can’t be any more different, and depending on your opinion, one would be inferior while the other superior.
If you pick the former, then I don’t even know what to say to you anymore. If you pick the latter, then why are you being so Daiz, Daiz?
You will not find honorifics in any professional translation of actual text-based media ever, even though you don’t have a Japanese audio track to fall back on when reading a book. Just saying.
….but then again I guess you just know better than people who have spent years on studying translation and are translating for a living now.
Actually, I’ve bought plenty of official anime that did kept honorifics. Not all official publishers share that “no honorifics and liberal localization” policy.
Daiz is not “walking all over Ryuumaru”. Daiz is being a ‘bro’ helping out Comm’A. Honorifics or not, just watch the show, it’s your loss if you get another release..But last time i checked these are ENGLISH subtitles. Where abouts in the english language are JAPANESE honorifics located ?
Comm’A has already stated that without Daiz helping, this would have huge delays and the workload seems to be kicking him in the nuts every time an episode rolls around. Respect his decision fgts.
If you STILL don’t like it, don’t bitch, just leave quietly.
Weeaboos complaining about honorifics. Cool.
Felt like posting some love:
Zakuro 1-7 [Ryuumaru]
1 – http://www.fileserve.com/file/6sQxxUF
2 – http://www.fileserve.com/file/hwc958z
3 – http://www.fileserve.com/file/hTRWYwS
4 – http://www.fileserve.com/file/4WZsZsr
5 – http://www.fileserve.com/file/6aPwSgq
6 – http://www.fileserve.com/file/2G6pdGs
7 – http://www.fileserve.com/file/6ezNe2K